When That Flag Flies with Tameka Fryer Brown

Full Episode description

Tameka Fryer Brown shares That Flag, an affecting picture book that challenges the meaning behind the still-waving Confederate flag through the friendship of two young girls who live across the street from each other.

BOOK DESCRIPTION: That Flag by Tameka Fryer Brown; illustrated by Nikkolas Smith

An affecting picture book from Tameka Fryer Brown and #1 New York Times bestselling illustrator Nikkolas Smith (The 1619 Project: Born on the Water) that challenges the meaning behind the still-waving Confederate flag through the friendship of two young girls who live across the street from each other.

Bianca is Keira’s best friend. At school, they are inseparable. But Keira questions their friendship when she learns more about the meaning of the Confederate flag hanging from Bianca’s front porch. Will the two friends be able to overlook their distinct understandings of the flag? Or will they reckon with the flag’s effect on yesterday and today?

In That Flag, Tameka Fryer Brown and Nikkolas Smith graciously tackle the issues of racism, the value of friendship, and the importance of understanding history so that we move forward together in a thought-provoking, stirring, yet ultimately tender tale.

A perfect conversation starter for the older and younger generations alike, this book includes back matter on the history of the Confederate flag and notes from the creators.

NOTABLE QUOTES:

(5:51) “They started a civil war to protect their ability to own Black people. And throughout the course of the war, they adopted a particular battle flag. And that’s the version that most of us know as the Confederate flag today.” 

(7:28) “All of that is a part of a system called white supremacy. And the Confederate flag, unfortunately, is still the go-to flag for white supremacists today. You know, they use it whenever they want to intimidate people of color, especially Black people.”

(8:24) “I think that a lot of times people either don’t understand that impact that a thing has on someone else, or sometimes, unfortunately, they don’t care, or sometimes they don’t care to learn and understand. And I think the center of it all is selfishness or self concern or self-centeredness.”

(10:11) “The Confederate flag is a symbol best saved for museums and history books and not public celebration.”

(12:12) “When you disagree with someone you love and care about, about something that really matters to you, it’s going to hurt.”

(12:41) “We all have been guilty of hurting other people as much as we’ve been hurt.”

(14:32) “It takes a willingness to admit that what you may have done that impacted the other person was indeed harmful. And a heart to apologize sincerely. And then a willingness again to do the hard work, you know, for however long it might take, in an effort to build up that trust and hopefully that closeness again, or at least some level of closeness.”

(17:59) “I have the hope that with understanding and with knowledge and with the sharing of truth and holistic history, that change within people is possible.”

(19:34) “Never be afraid of the truth, knowing it, understanding it, embracing it, all of it. That’s what makes us better people.” 

ADDITIONAL LINKS:

• Tameka Fryer Brown website – TamekaFryerBrown.com

• Purchase the Book – That Flag

• Educator Guide for That Flag – download file

TALK ABOUT THE EPISODE:

1. What are some of the flags you have noticed in your community? What meaning does each flag hold or represent? Is this a flag that you’ve seen in lots of places? Or maybe at just this one place? What might this flag tell us about the person displaying it? Or what do you think the person displaying it is trying to say?

2. Have you ever been in a disagreement with a classmate, friend, or family member? Was the harm repaired in any way after the disagreement? If so, how did you both repair harm so that you could move forward together? What did that look and feel like?

3. Is it ever okay to display a symbol or slogan that offends or upsets someone else? When might it be okay to use such a symbol or slogan to communicate your beliefs? When might displaying that symbol or slogan be harmful to others?

CREDITS:

This podcast episode of The Children’s Book Podcast was written, edited, and produced by Matthew Winner. For a full transcript of this episode, visit matthewcwinner.com. 

Write to me or send me a message at matthewmakespods@gmail.com. 

Our podcast logo was created by Duke Stebbins (https://stebs.design/). 

Our music is by Podington Bear. 

Podcast hosting by Libsyn. 

You can support the show and buy me a coffee at www.matthewcwinner.com.

We are a proud member of Kids Listen, the best place to discover the best in kids podcasts. Learn more at kidslisten.org.

Fellow teachers and librarians, want a way to explore building a stronger culture of reading in our communities? In The Reading Culture podcast, Beanstack co-founder Jordan Bookey hosts conversations that dive into beloved authors’ personal journeys and insights into motivating young people to read. And I am a big fan! Check out the Reading Culture Podcast with Jordan Bookey, from Beanstack. Available wherever podcasts are found.

DISCLAIMER: Bookshop.org affiliate links provided for any book titles mentioned in the episode. Bookshop.org support independent bookstores and also shares a small percentage of any sales made through this podcast back to me, which helps to fund production of this show.