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The band Phish has toured for over 40 years. One of the draws of their legendary live shows—which can go on for 8 hours—is finding moments of “flow,” when the band members lock into an improvised jam, finding new musical ideas in real time.
Phish fans live for these transcendent moments, but so do the musicians—to the point that Mike Gordon, the band’s bass player, is funding scientific research to better understand flow state.
The band Phish has toured for over 40 years. One of the draws of their legendary live shows—which can go on for 8 hours—is finding moments of “flow,” when the band members lock into an improvised jam, finding new musical ideas in real time.
Phish fans live for these transcendent moments, but so do the musicians—to the point that Mike Gordon, the band’s bass player, is funding scientific research to better understand flow state.
In November 2025, Host Flora Lichtman sat down with Mike and his research collaborator, neuroscientist Greg Appelbaum, to unpack their research so far and how it’s helping to inform other neuroscience.
Guests:
Mike Gordon is bassist and co-founder of the seminal improvisational rock band Phish.
Dr. Greg Appelbaum is a professor in the department of psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego.
A transcript for this episode is available at sciencefriday.com.
Subscribe to this podcast. Follow our show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Bluesky @scifri and sign up for our newsletters. Got a science question that’s keeping you up at night? Call us: 877-472-4374
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
QUICK LINKS
This is an episodic podcast, so you can listen to it in any order, but episode one is a great place to start.
Listen to episode one hereThe band Phish has toured for over 40 years. One of the draws of their legendary live shows—which can go on for 8 hours—is finding moments of “flow,” when the band members lock into an improvised jam, finding new musical ideas in real time.
Phish fans live for these transcendent moments, but so do the musicians—to the point that Mike Gordon, the band’s bass player, is funding scientific research to better understand flow state.
In November 2025, Host Flora Lichtman sat down with Mike and his research collaborator, neuroscientist Greg Appelbaum, to unpack their research so far and how it’s helping to inform other neuroscience.
Guests:
Mike Gordon is bassist and co-founder of the seminal improvisational rock band Phish.
Dr. Greg Appelbaum is a professor in the department of psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego.
A transcript for this episode is available at sciencefriday.com.
Subscribe to this podcast. Follow our show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Bluesky @scifri and sign up for our newsletters. Got a science question that’s keeping you up at night? Call us: 877-472-4374
Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Sound Carrot is your source for Family Podcast Discovery. Verified awesome, 0% boring.
Distraction free website, no flashing banners or adverts to steal your attention.
(Some shows do contain their own ads however).
At first I made this site for my kids, but like any dad I got a little over excited. I hope you find it as useful as they do.
Whether you want to listen to them together in the car, or alone in your room - the content is all safe for younger ears.
